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SonGoku92
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 10 May 2013
Posts: 19
Location: Reno
Styles: Goju kenpo, Ninjutsu, Kenjutsu (self taught)

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Backfist IMHO is not really an attack one can use all the time. but as with any technique has its place. I try to use it a little closer than most people because if a stretched out backfist is blocked it tends to cause problems for me. but thats just me. but I tend to have my own version of everything. lol
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infinitehand
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Macon, GA
Styles: Okinawa Goju-Ryu

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The backfist is a great technique. Not to be seen as better or worse than a jab. It all depends on how you train it. Find a guy who can't keep his hands up a back fist works every time. Get a guy to drop his hands a backfist works every time. It appears to me that many people see it as a "tag your it" technique. Well if that's how you train it that's all it will do. If you train it to drop people that's what it will do. It's great off angles and its great to set something up. But if you don't like it you probably won't use it and this won't develope which is no problem.

The traditional blocks used as commonly misunderstood "blocks" probably won't help you at all because except in the rarest cases or "modified shortened" versions traditional karate blocks don't work at all. But then again, I personally don't think there are any blocks in Karate. If you like Shotokan but don't want to give up knockdown fighting see if some of your dojo mates want to train that way with you in whatever time you have available. Also you can still compete and such.
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guird
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 198

Styles: BJJ, MMA, Gongkwon Yusul

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with the backfist for the goal you're trying to accomplish is that it doesn't work with gloves. in kickboxing/mma it won't have much effect because it uses the small surface area of the back of the knuckle to strike a weak point such as the temple.
more of a precision strike than a powerful one.

That said, the spinning backfist has made a few, fairly succesful appearances in MMA.

The traditional blocks, done traditionally are pretty useless I have to agree, and even more so in MMA. a lot of them are more intended to break out of someone's grip, etc, some are meant to double as a hammerfist or forearm strike.

However, merits exist. blocking with a twist of the forearm is a very quick, efficient way to block that leaves a relatively small opening while still forcing the punch away. it has more of a place in mma, which has smaller gloves than in (kick)boxing.
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Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1783
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tradition blocks generally turn out to be strikes. I would disagree with calling them useless. Generally Martial Arts (whichever it may be) don't teach "useless" techniques.
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guird
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 198

Styles: BJJ, MMA, Gongkwon Yusul

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just started reading this guy's stuff.

http://dandjurdjevic.blogspot.nl/2008/06/why-blocks-do-work.html

It isn't shotokan, but it's relevant. by his argument, karate blocks won't do you much good in (kick) boxing, but may be quite helpful in MMA.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

guird wrote:
I just started reading this guy's stuff.

http://dandjurdjevic.blogspot.nl/2008/06/why-blocks-do-work.html

It isn't shotokan, but it's relevant. by his argument, karate blocks won't do you much good in (kick) boxing, but may be quite helpful in MMA.

Well, I'm still of the old school that doesn't block, we deflect said attack.


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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28973
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guird wrote:
I just started reading this guy's stuff.

http://dandjurdjevic.blogspot.nl/2008/06/why-blocks-do-work.html

It isn't shotokan, but it's relevant. by his argument, karate blocks won't do you much good in (kick) boxing, but may be quite helpful in MMA.


I didn't get through all the article, but he had some very good points and input into his thoughts on blocking, and how gloved fighting styles affect one's ablility to use traditional blocking methods. Thanks for posting that for us. Very informative.
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guird
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 198

Styles: BJJ, MMA, Gongkwon Yusul

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sensei 8,

yes, that is his point and I agree. block is a poor translation for uke , parry matches it better, though not perferctly.
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infinitehand
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 25
Location: Macon, GA
Styles: Okinawa Goju-Ryu

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Receive. Receive is what Uke means
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

infinitehand wrote:
Receive. Receive is what Uke means

Yes, but it's so misunderstood, imho, because practitoners are thinking along the lines of blocking because said waza might be called, for example, Rising Forearm BLOCK, and then, they think they're suppose to block, instead of its true intent...deflect!!

Once the mind wraps around BLOCK, they're having to be reprogrammed to treat it as a DEFLECTION.


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