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Patrick
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Joined: 01 May 2001
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That image is meant to divide people. I question the intentions of whoever created it. They could have been trying to troll people (provoke a negative, emotional responsible). They could have wanted to boost their Facebook engagement numbers by generating a lot of likes/comments/shares. They could have been a traditional martial artist wanting to rally people against MMA. They could have been a mixed martial artist who wants to rally people against traditional arts ("look at how they portray us!").

No matter what they were trying to do, their intent wasn't noble.

When it comes to the martial arts, I have no bias. I don't practice them, and I've made no secret of that. I just like connecting people. When I launched these forums 14+ years ago, I had no preconceived notions of martial artists.

During that time, I have probably interacted with thousands of martial artists. I have banned hundreds of them from this community. When you aren't knee deep in a specific art, looking at your friends vs. the school down the street, comparing yourselves to those you encounter, the martial arts world probably looks a little different. From that view, there really is no correlation between the art and the quality of the person. There is no "most of the people in this art are good, but only a few from this one are." It just doesn't exist. I believe that any "evidence" to the contrary is anecdotal at best.

Our community is a wonderful mix of traditional martial artists, mixed martial artists and people who would consider themselves to be both. No matter what group you are a part of, whether you are a UFC fighter or a strict traditionalist, the person who created this image is not your friend.

You are all martial artists. Don't let people divide you for their own gain.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15361
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whenever I watch MMA, UFC for example, I'll mainly be watching the pureness of the techniques. The who, what, where, when, why, and how of each technique, and the techniques in combinations. I've been teaching on my own since 1977, so as an instructor, I look at the pureness of the techniques, and nothing else.

Yes, I love to watch the battle between two solid practitioners just as much as everyone else. But the nuts and bolts of the whole battle rest on techniques effectiveness. Not all practitioners turn their supportive foot when executing a kick, and this DRIVES ME CRAZY. Had they turned their foot more, to open up the hips more, well, a pound weighs more than an ounce!!

When I saw the pic on FB, my reply to the question asked was..."BOTH!!" I left it at that, and I'll still leave it at that.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15361
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick wrote:
That image is meant to divide people. I question the intentions of whoever created it. They could have been trying to troll people (provoke a negative, emotional responsible). They could have wanted to boost their Facebook engagement numbers by generating a lot of likes/comments/shares. They could have been a traditional martial artist wanting to rally people against MMA. They could have been a mixed martial artist who wants to rally people against traditional arts ("look at how they portray us!").

No matter what they were trying to do, their intent wasn't noble.

When it comes to the martial arts, I have no bias. I don't practice them, and I've made no secret of that. I just like connecting people. When I launched these forums 14+ years ago, I had no preconceived notions of martial artists.

During that time, I have probably interacted with thousands of martial artists. I have banned hundreds of them from this community. When you aren't knee deep in a specific art, looking at your friends vs. the school down the street, comparing yourselves to those you encounter, the martial arts world probably looks a little different. From that view, there really is no correlation between the art and the quality of the person. There is no "most of the people in this art are good, but only a few from this one are." It just doesn't exist. I believe that any "evidence" to the contrary is anecdotal at best.

Our community is a wonderful mix of traditional martial artists, mixed martial artists and people who would consider themselves to be both. No matter what group you are a part of, whether you are a UFC fighter or a strict traditionalist, the person who created this image is not your friend.

You are all martial artists. Don't let people divide you for their own gain.

Solid post!!

A martial artist is a martial artist; no gray area exists, imho!!



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Luther unleashed
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Joined: 30 Jan 2014
Posts: 661
Location: Phoenix
Styles: A few!

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great posts guys but I'd like to say that there is some truth to the fact that the mma is a a good facilitator of fighting without some of the humility. It's true because there's so many guys that are picking up MMA that never would have been interested in martial arts in the past, unfortunately many of them don't have an excessive amount of traditional martial arts experience, and as we all know traditional martial arts breeds Core Values such as humility, respect, honor in more cases then not! When I was growing up more guys were into bodybuilding and going to the gym, now many of those type of guys are just hitting the local MMA spot because it's what's in.

I am not saying it's a bad thing, but I am saying that the overall MMA energy is very different than the overall traditional martial arts experience. That's my opinion anyway, I'm 38 and I have watched the whole thing Unfold into what it is today and that's just my take on it. I fear the fighting aspect of martial arts being at its peak without the usual traditional values that go with it. It is a breeding ground for many negatives, that does not mean that they are all this way but it is a breeding ground and conducive to these negative attributes because the fighting ability is so much more important than the other aspects, and why wouldn't it be, if you're stepping into the ring this is the most important attributes from the martial arts you would want to attain, ironically it is partially some of the reason I turned down the MMA guy that wanted private karate lessons.

Seriously karate forums peoples, I fear a martial arts world where we focus solely on the fighting aspects, I fear this!
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Luther unleashed
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not my intent to separate Patrick just so you know, I just hope that people get what I'm saying. I just think that MARTIAL ARTS in general is meant to be more then just fighting and I hope that we keep that the primary focus.
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Luther unleashed
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judodad_karateson wrote:
MMA was created by the Gracie's as a marketing tool. They started the Dojo storms, where they would go to gyms and challenge fighters, then they created the UFC, where fighters come to them. MMA rules and equipment were designed to favor not just grappling, but newaza specifically. Of course, nothing can beat a solid punch to the jaw, so there is enough variety that most people don't notice this. But make no mistake, BJJ is always be a dominate art in UFC, because that is what UFC was created to exhibit.

MMA is a sport on par with kickboxing or catch wrestling.

As for the photo, it's complete nonsense. There is plenty of style, grace, and technique in the MMA, plenty of brutality in TMA. The most successful MMA combatants have donned Gis years before they ever even though about entering the cage, and doing so only advanced their talents further.


Actually I don't know if I agree with the statement, the part about the UFC being set up for jujitsu. The first UFC fights had pretty much know jujitsu in them, in fact they were pretty different than what you see now days. Originally you saw people with traditional background stepping in and if you came something that anybody with some blended systems who was tough could make it as a fighter, which is fine but hoyce Gracie didn't even make an impact until later on when he was running into guys twice his size that looked like they were gladiators and he was disposing of them, with his skinny physique, this is what pave the way for jujitsu to become popular the way it is today.
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DWx
KF Sensei
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other important thing to remember is that the individuals who play up to this stereotype in professional MMA aren't just fighters. They're entertainers too and the showboating and bravado is sometimes necessary for them to create a personality they can market. Look at someone like Connor McGregor, they arrogance he portrays is part of his image and brand. We just notice it more because the spotlight is on them.

As to the discussion on self defense, I'd put money on an MMA fighter fairing better than an average "traditional" martial artist. Those guys are mostly live drilling and sparring every training session whereas most TMA won't be.
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Luther unleashed
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great points. Also, I totally agree about the self defense and what the MMA guys practice daily. I feel that of course a person who practices the fighting aspects almost exclusively is going to be a better fighter then a traditional martial artist, this is similar to my point about a traditional martial artist being geared towards a respectful nature more because it's what they practice. Good points
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sensei8
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
The other important thing to remember is that the individuals who play up to this stereotype in professional MMA aren't just fighters. They're entertainers too and the showboating and bravado is sometimes necessary for them to create a personality they can market. Look at someone like Connor McGregor, they arrogance he portrays is part of his image and brand. We just notice it more because the spotlight is on them.

As to the discussion on self defense, I'd put money on an MMA fighter fairing better than an average "traditional" martial artist. Those guys are mostly live drilling and sparring every training session whereas most TMA won't be.

Solid post!

Look at what that type of marketing has done for Ronda Rousey; made her the dynamic brand that it is!! She's a hot ticket, no matter the venue; movies, MMA, and so on and so forth.



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Luther unleashed
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah I suppose to each their own, I'm glad I have a choice in how to carry myself though!
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