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MMA_Jim
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Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats an insult to pro fighters everyone. Lee was fast, but have you seriously ever watched Muhammed Ali fight? THOSE are fast hands.
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MasterPain
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Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ali was a very fast heavyweight, and I'm sure he hit much harder than Lee. But Bruce was most likely faster. I doubt Ali was as fast as Mayweather or De Lahoya either.
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MMA_Jim
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now you're simply speculating. I've also seen Mayweather fight- I dont think hes as fast as Ali was either, given that most of Ali's punches were thrown with his hand by his hips, he had more distance to cover.

There is no doubt that Lee was fast, and the same can be said for the other peope in this discussion. Speed is also not just something that is a genetic gift- its a skill developed the same way power and every other technique is. That being said, the boxers in this discusion had significantly better technique than Lee did. This isnt because Lee wasnt good, but moreso because alot of the things Lee was doing was more experimental in terms of real fighting, whereas the others simply boxed and had the best trainers in the world with no other distractions (i.e. grappling, kicking, fighting as a whole is concerned).
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MasterPain
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd put money on Anderson Silva vs any of them. Sure Ali may have been a better straight boxer, but he was never kicked or taken down. He reminds me of Ali actually. But with 6 more legal weapons and a ground game. Same polarizing persona though.

I respect Bruce Lee a lot. The problem I have with other people who like Bruce is that they think they should be doing things the way he did. They're missing the point. JKD was Bruce's attempt at putting together an effective mixed martial art. It was meant to evolve. That's why I think the average MMA practicioner is more JKD than most JKD schools.
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Jay
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MasterPain wrote:
Ali was a very fast heavyweight, and I'm sure he hit much harder than Lee. But Bruce was most likely faster. I doubt Ali was as fast as Mayweather or De Lahoya either.


Bruce was faster over a single movement we know that because I worked it out, Ali could be seen on regular TV which is shot at 24fps. Bruce couldn't be seen on film at these frame rates, in that particular scene. In combinations they are probably evenly matched. Its a fact in science that smaller guys are relatively stronger than larger guys. Bigger guys take longer to get moving from stationary because there is more to shift.

I don't know about Ali faster than mayweather but if I could be bothered its pretty easy to work out.

Anyway the greatest in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU2YPXghFkU


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sensei8
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ali was fast. Bruce was fast. Mayweather's fast.

Then there's...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUnqQxIERkM&feature=related


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MasterPain
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Ali was fast. Bruce was fast. Mayweather's fast.

Then there's...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUnqQxIERkM&feature=related



Cool video. That was light sparring. I wonder if the style remains the same if it was a fight for food or territory.
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MMA_Jim
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MasterPain wrote:
I'd put money on Anderson Silva vs any of them. Sure Ali may have been a better straight boxer, but he was never kicked or taken down. He reminds me of Ali actually. But with 6 more legal weapons and a ground game. Same polarizing persona though.

I respect Bruce Lee a lot. The problem I have with other people who like Bruce is that they think they should be doing things the way he did. They're missing the point. JKD was Bruce's attempt at putting together an effective mixed martial art. It was meant to evolve. That's why I think the average MMA practicioner is more JKD than most JKD schools.


Of course Silva would beat all those that you mentioned-- the guy is an incredible muay thai fighter on top of being a proficient ground grappler. We found this stuff out in the first UFC's (and again when Couture easily handled James Toney). That doesnt take away from the boxing prowess of the mentioned fighters though. Ali, Mayweather, and De la Hoya are still much much better with their hands than Silva is, if for no other reason thats all they have to worry about and train- they dont have to divide their time between kicking, clinch work, take downs, and ground work.
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brickshooter
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Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best MMA hands I've ever seen was a guy named Lightning Lee Murray (who's serving a 20 year sentenced on armed bank robbery). He's the only MMA guy who I think could have competed in professional boxing.

BTW, according to Randy Couture, Murry and Ortiz got in a heated argument in a club. In a flash, Murry dropped Ortiz with a 1-2-3. Then kicked Ortiz a couple of times after Ortiz was out cold.

That Murray. Not a nice chap.
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MMA_Jim
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are lots of fighters that have competed in professional boxing. Jens Pulver being one, and Vitor Belfort was notorious for beating pro boxers when training with them.
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