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wrestlingkaratechamp
Brown Belt
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 663
Location: Brooklyn
Styles: Brown belt shotkan karate/black belt 1st dan BJJ(8 years) high school wrestling champion
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 Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Great post |
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Ironberg
Red Belt
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 801
Location: Minnesota, USA
Styles: American Karate, WTF Tae Kwon Do, Kickboxing, Jeet Kune Do
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I heard once that turning the other cheek was a way of demeaning your attacker back in the days. If he struck you with the back of the hand, in those days, it was considered feminine and demeaning for the attacker. However, I don't exactly trust the source of that statement...
Good article.
About meditation - the farthest I go in meditation is concentration of a technique so that my muscle memory is improved. I personally see a problem with calling on mantras over and over again in a subconscious state, or constantly emptying your mind (a very unBiblical principle) so that an unknown cleanliness arrives in your movements, or ability to break things, etc.
Understand this, the ungodly spiritual forces in this world aren't stupid. If everyone who performed eastern meditation (or read Harry Potter, or other such matters) was changed for the worse, people just wouldn't do it. We are not cows who just blindly follow procedures, and get roped into trouble - we are human beings. People who are affected in today's present are carefully chosen so as not to be seen by others.
Because you are a human being, be careful what your mind dwells on for it is a gift. It is the most powerful computer created, but it can crash, or worse, be taunted by the unseen.
_________________
"An enlightened man would offer a weary traveler a bed for the night, and invite him to share a civilized conversation over a bowl of... Cocoa Puffs." |
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Shoryu
White Belt
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Anchorage, AK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, Nunchakus
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm Christian and no I do not worship buddah...that is budism...and when I bow to my superiors it is not to worship them but to show respect to them...kindof like a hand shake. and I see kicking and hitting oter people a sport if we're both wearing gear. and it is a way to practice my self defence.If I were attacked on the street I would want to be able to protect myself. God always come first to me. and if martial arts ever interfered with my christianity then I would quit martial arts... |
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Ironberg
Red Belt
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 801
Location: Minnesota, USA
Styles: American Karate, WTF Tae Kwon Do, Kickboxing, Jeet Kune Do
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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I never said bowing was wrong - It really is no different than a handshake cuz that's the only definition I've recieved from a viable sorce. I simply addressed meditation.
I see nothing wrong with studying self-defense, focusing your mind, and sport martial arts as long as we are recieving our power from the natural sources God gave us.
I also never said that we worship Buddah when we meditate. However, we are showing a respect for the religion when we do which I fear cannot be good for a Christain conscience. I already gave the bulk of my reasonings in my previous message, so I won't say any more for now...
If you avoiding religious atmospheres, and bloodsport style arenas, then I see nothing wrong with a healthy Christian studying the martial arts.
_________________
"An enlightened man would offer a weary traveler a bed for the night, and invite him to share a civilized conversation over a bowl of... Cocoa Puffs." |
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Kamidake
Orange Belt
Joined: 13 Apr 2003
Posts: 155
Location: U. S. A.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Meditation is not an exclusively Buddhist practice. I believe it's common to nearly all religions, and it's certainly got a long history in Christendom. Christians have been meditating on the Rosary since at least the 1200's, possibly earlier, and then there's St. Teresa of Avila and her "interior castle." |
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shortstick
Yellow Belt
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 71
Location: central california
Styles: Kempo, Tae Kwon Do, Sarrada Eskrima
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:27 am Post subject: |
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nice article. I agree with most of what you say.
I have heard the point of view that when Jesus said to turn the other cheek it was meant in defiance. Like go on hit me again.
At any rate, it was a good article.
Shortstick
_________________
"The more we change, the more we stay the same" |
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kchenault
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 1050
Location: Ottawa, KS USA
Styles: TKD, little Hap Ki Do, Target Focus Training
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Here is the verse about being struck on the cheek in context.
It's kinda lengthy.
27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
This is where we get the golden rule from. We as martial artists have the power and ability(we hope) to turn the other cheek or really hurt someone. Christ could have destroyed those who abused and mistreated them, but He didn't. He chose to turn the other cheek in order to show love for them. I still don't advocate being a punching bag, but forebearance is a great quality to have. Temperance as well. 
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Ken Chenault
TFT - It does a body good! |
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Makoto
Yellow Belt
Joined: 25 Dec 2002
Posts: 42
Location: Chiba-ken,Japan
Styles: Shotokan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Why even bother to bring religion into karate or MA?
Is it in boxing orginally? WHat about Soccer? Tennis? Aerobics?
Bowing, is a form of greeting, not worsip. IT is not an issue.
Turn the other cheek: Yea I guess so, but when it comes to loving your enemy more than your own kin and friends what does that say about you. Sorry, but I am not do karate to let some guy hit me in the face. I am going to block that punch or slap to the cheek, then I am going to drop him. If I catch him stealing my belongings, I will not kill him, but I will kick the crap out of him. Then call the EMS to help him out.
Turn the other cheek, sounds very noble. To bad Jesus only said it and not preached it.
HE was a revolutionary. He was plotting for the take over of Rome. He knew at some point his teachings would mean an open conflict with the authorites of the time, Hebrews and Romans. Why did he not turn other cheek when he trashed the synagogue? His anger was very apparent then. Why do you think he was arrested and executed, because he posed a danger to the state.
Leave your personal beleifs out of karate, it does not need to be there. There is no conflict. IF your teachers push another religion upon you, quit that school and move on to another.
Religious beliefs are personal and have no place in the ma.
That is my feeling. There is no conflict.
THe idea of christain ma schools totally makes me wanna puke. So instead of dojo kun, I get bible lessons. Gag!
If I want to go to a religious service I go to church, not some third rate guy who wants everyone to follow his ideas of christianity or any other religious beleifs. |
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kchenault
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 1050
Location: Ottawa, KS USA
Styles: TKD, little Hap Ki Do, Target Focus Training
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:51 am Post subject: |
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No inflammatory remarks please. I would like this thread to stay open. You are mistaken about Jesus though. He was in conflict with His own religious leaders. They are the ones who killed Him. He did exactly what He came to do. Die for us to pay the penalty for sin. But I digress, this article was about fears or worries that Christians might have about practicing MA, not what you are talking about.
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Ken Chenault
TFT - It does a body good! |
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Makoto
Yellow Belt
Joined: 25 Dec 2002
Posts: 42
Location: Chiba-ken,Japan
Styles: Shotokan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:36 am Post subject: |
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In the north america and the western world your view of Jesus is seen as correct. However in more oppressed socities Jesuse is seen as a revolutionary in nature. The bible and its meanings can be seen in many ways, contextual revelence is one of them. Not wrong.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but if you wanna hear nice only comments why post here. You wrote a beleif, I worte mine. If they contradict yours in any way that is not wrong.
Your article well written and well explained. You did well justifying or explaining how a devout christain can continue training in the MA.
My question is, how in the heck does religion relate to MA. Why even bother applying christianity. I do not see how or why a person would want to train in MA that also preached the gospel. Do you only eat and shop at places that espouse the gospel? My guess is that you do not. So why a need for a christain ma? Why confuse the two? Look at the opportunties for abuse. You are setting up MA teachers to take the place of priests and pastors.
It is totally idiotic to me. There is not conflict nor is there any concilliation between the two. To me is its a mis mash of two concepts which leads to confusion and many misconceptions of the two. At one time concentrate on the one practice and on other times concentrate on the other.
Explain to me how the two soundly go hand in hand? You did a great job in explaining how MA does not offend Christain beleifs. Now explain how the two go together. I do not see why they should. |
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on the post.
