|
|
| Author |
Message |
Warp Spider
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 615
Location: The Origin of the Universe
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:59 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| TJS wrote: |
Wrong again, Soft floors favor a striker since the better grappler will dictate positioning in most cases, are you one of those people who think that a striker has a better chance of out grappling a grappler and ending up on top?
I dont give me the "oh if you get knocked down it helps you" because if they are a halfway decent grappler they know how to break fall and it's not a sever issue.
There are a few techniques that favor grapplers such as the removal of the "downward" elbow in the UFC. but thats still 3 vs 1 in favor of the "striker"
Besides in the early days when there were hardly any rules it became obvious that Grapplers have the advantage. It almost comical that people still try and deny it to this day instead adressing the weakness like most. |
Both people will hit the floor, and even stiking arts teach how to fall. However, I would argue that a striker would be much better conditioned to withstand impacts, such as those from striking a hard floor.
_________________
Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
TJS
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1843
Styles: boxing, Thai boxing, BJJ,
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Both people will hit the floor |
Your right when I pick you up and slam you with a double leg I will also end up on top of you in a side mount.
When I Hipp toss you to the ground I will proabably follow.
If I sweep you from the clinch I will land in the mount.
When I slam you on you head with double underhooks I will end up on top.
Do you have a valid point to this? you saying the grappler is going to hurt his knee when he slams someon on their head or back? 
Any properly performed throw/takdown will hurt the person being taken down alot more than the one doing it.
| Quote: |
| I would argue that a striker would be much better conditioned to withstand impacts |
So people who spend alot of time taking people down and getting taken down themselves are less condiditoned to do so than someone who spends little or no time or practice doing it?
I guess I could use your thinking and claim a grappler is better conditioned to handle getting punched and kicked than a kickboxer.
| Quote: |
| such as those from striking a hard floor. |
Like i said it's going to hurt whoever is getting taken down, most of the time that will be the "striker" . Maybe these guys are so conditioned they can get slammed on concrete floors and not get hurt..who knows... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JohnnyS
Green Belt
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 444
Location: Australia
Styles: BJJ, Shootfighting, TKD, Goju
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Your arguments are weak Warp Spider.
The early UFC's had no rules regarding prohibited strikes, yet the strikers didn't win. Ryan Parker, a former regular on rec.martial-arts was a karate expert who claimed he couldn't be armbarred and his pressure point strikes would give him victory. He lost via armbar to Remco Pardoe (hardly a great grappler).
The flooring is a non-issue. You think someone fighting for money is going to care about scrapes and bruises, or landing hard ?
Even in the early days where it was two strikers fighting, the fighters always ended up grappling. This clearly shows that a fight will always get closer and closer, not stay at striking distance.
For an MMA fighter to be successful these days, they have to know grappling.
_________________
BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)
Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black Belt
TKD - Black Belt |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cybren
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 187
Location: New York
Styles: Ji Do Kwon Tae kwon Do
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i'm not a follower of the UFC, how many were considered "early", two or three?
four?
Could it be possible that the grapplers during those were just better.
Such as, the Yankees won four World Series in a row, is ti that their form of Baseball was supirior, or that they were just better during those for seasons? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TJS
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1843
Styles: boxing, Thai boxing, BJJ,
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
would cosider early up to about UFC 10
| Quote: |
| Could it be possible that the grapplers during those were just better |
Not really, not looking at the Big picture..there were alot of succesful(in their own field) boxers/kickboxers/karateka/TKD'ers etc
Some of them won a few fight but most of the time the lost to "grapplers" and You see grapplers/wrestlers from all diffrent backgrounds walk in and almost always win atleast a few fight and ususally do very well
Royce Gracie-BJJ
Dan Severn-Greco roman wrestling
Oleg Taktarov-Sambo
Ken shamrock-shootinfighting
Remco Pardoe-Judo
All these guys had alot of succes with little or no cross training in "striking" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wrestlingkaratechamp
Brown Belt
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 663
Location: Brooklyn
Styles: Brown belt shotkan karate/black belt 1st dan BJJ(8 years) high school wrestling champion
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Grappling is better |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TJS
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1843
Styles: boxing, Thai boxing, BJJ,
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wrestlingkaratechamp17 wrote: |
| Grappling is better |
I wouldent say it's "better" But is definetly an overlooked aspect of alot of people...I think most people have an unrealistic picture of what they would do against a good grappler because they have never really tried it agaist one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JohnnyS
Green Belt
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 444
Location: Australia
Styles: BJJ, Shootfighting, TKD, Goju
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think Grappling only can get you through a MMA fight, whereas striking only can't.
Ideally though, a fighter needs both: Striking and grappling ( takedowns, ground-grappling)
_________________
BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)
Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black Belt
TKD - Black Belt |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TJS
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1843
Styles: boxing, Thai boxing, BJJ,
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I think Grappling only can get you through a MMA fight, whereas striking only can't. |
Today you migh have a better chance with pure grappling but even today a pure grappler would get hurt in most cases atleast at the higher levels of competition. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JohnnyS
Green Belt
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 444
Location: Australia
Styles: BJJ, Shootfighting, TKD, Goju
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
TJS, I agree. It was enough in the early days, but nowadays anyone entering MMA will at least work their takedown defenses if they're primarily a striker.
_________________
BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)
Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black Belt
TKD - Black Belt |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
on the post.
