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Cybren
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 187
Location: New York
Styles: Ji Do Kwon Tae kwon Do
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 Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see them as different things.
Honestally, I'm sure you can use striking principles while grappling, and use grappling principles while striking.
I don't see the need to seperate them. |
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JerryLove
Black Belt
Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 1274
Location: Tampa, FL, US
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| The flooring is a non-issue. You think someone fighting for money is going to care about scrapes and bruises, or landing hard ? |
Where can I watch some UFCs done in sneakers and on asphault? I'd like to look at those fights (certainly, fighters don't mind having matches that way, you've already declared it a non-issue).
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Warp Spider
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 615
Location: The Origin of the Universe
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Your right when I pick you up and slam you with a double leg I will also end up on top of you in a side mount.
When I Hipp toss you to the ground I will proabably follow.
If I sweep you from the clinch I will land in the mount.
When I slam you on you head with double underhooks I will end up on top.
Do you have a valid point to this? you saying the grappler is going to hurt his knee when he slams someon on their head or back? 
Any properly performed throw/takdown will hurt the person being taken down alot more than the one doing it.
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That's awfully one sided. What makes you think you will land on top? It is not hard to flip a double leg around so you land on top of the grappler. It is also not difficult to avoid a sweep from the clinch.
Alternatively, the striker could place you on the ground with a strike. Have you heard of a move called the "spear?" It's a striking move which plants the other person on the ground.
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So people who spend alot of time taking people down and getting taken down themselves are less condiditoned to do so than someone who spends little or no time or practice doing it?
I guess I could use your thinking and claim a grappler is better conditioned to handle getting punched and kicked than a kickboxer.
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Being taken down onto a soft mat is nothing like taking a full force kick in the shin, back, ribs, etc. Getting slammed down on a mat is nothing like getting slammed down on ashphalt or concrete.
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Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God! |
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TJS
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1843
Styles: boxing, Thai boxing, BJJ,
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| What makes you think you will land on top? It is not hard to flip a double leg around so you land on top of the grappler |
Have you ever actually wrestled in your life? It's easy to reverse a double leg? well assume your right but for whatever reason wrestler like Dan Severn, Mark kerr, Mark coleman were able to double leg every single one of their opponets without exception.
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It is also not difficult to avoid a sweep from the clinch.
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Maybe your right but for some stange reason Royce Gracie was able to get ever single one of his opponets to the ground...and so was every other competent grappler that faced a "striker".
Once again anyone who knows BJJ/judo/wrestling WILL put you on the ground alomst every time from a clinch unless you have signifigant grappling experience.
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Have you heard of a move called the "spear?" It's a striking move which plants the other person on the ground.
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If they are a grappler they should know how to fall without seriosuly injuring themselves regsrdless of the surface.
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| Being taken down onto a soft mat is nothing like taking a full force kick in the shin, back, ribs, etc. Getting slammed down on a mat is nothing like getting slammed down on ashphalt or concrete. |
Ok your still not looking at the Facts THE STRIKER IS THE ONE THAT GETS TAKEN DOWN.
your argument dosent hold any weight and you have no eveidence to backup your claims. |
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Warp Spider
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 615
Location: The Origin of the Universe
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| TJS wrote: |
Ok your still not looking at the Facts THE STRIKER IS THE ONE THAT GETS TAKEN DOWN.
your argument dosent hold any weight and you have no eveidence to backup your claims. |
Actually, THIS is the argument that doesn't "hold any weight." Strikers do not always get taken down. That's a totally absurd notion. By the same logic I could say "well, strikers don't have to worry about grapplers, since the grappler is the one that gets beat senseless." It's completely absurd. You can't categorically say that a striker WILL get taken down, or that a grappler WILL be beaten to a pulp. Either could happen, and both do happen.
Just because MMA competitions favour grappling, doesn't make it better. I'm not surprised that people like Royce Gracie can take down their opponents consistently. It's not because grappling is better, however, it's because Royce Gracie is a very good fighter. Frankly, the strikers I've seen in the UFC and similar competitions are a joke. Using MMA as a way of measuring real-life combat is silly. You might as well use point sparring to compare arts.
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Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God! |
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Drunken Monkey
Black Belt
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3559
Location: bar italia
Styles: white chocolate profiteroles and natas....
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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but he does have experience.
y'know, when he's not doing his microbiological things and his experimental weapons, he makes up martial arts in his garage with his mates...
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"When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." |
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JohnnyS
Green Belt
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 444
Location: Australia
Styles: BJJ, Shootfighting, TKD, Goju
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Warp Spider, MMA does not favour grapplers, fights favour grapplers because its easier to move in on an opponent than to keep distance.
As for the " It is not hard to flip a double leg around so you land on top of the grappler", maybe you should go and show this to the Olympic wrestling team and they need never worry about being taken down again.
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BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)
Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black Belt
TKD - Black Belt |
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JohnnyS
Green Belt
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 444
Location: Australia
Styles: BJJ, Shootfighting, TKD, Goju
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Jerry Love wrote: "Where can I watch some UFCs done in sneakers and on asphault? I'd like to look at those fights (certainly, fighters don't mind having matches that way, you've already declared it a non-issue)."
What an assinine statement. It is a non-issue in a fight, not in a "sport match". Are you proposing that someone like Mark Coleman or any MMA fighter is not going to defend themselves in the street because their opponent has sneakers on or because they'd have to fight on asphalt (because that is essentially what you're now saying) ? Are you saying that they would throw out their grappling techniques and strategy so they wouldn't get scrapes whilst defending their lives ?
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BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)
Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black Belt
TKD - Black Belt |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2279
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Boxing,Lars Wallin BJJ, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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I think for the most part grappling arts are more realistic. There are grappling arts that have plenty of strikes in it. If I had to recommend a MA that was most practical for almost any situation, I'd say grappling arts are better suited.
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"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Lock em out or Knock em out" |
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Radok
Brown Belt
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 601
Location: Florida
Styles: Okinawan Shorin-ryu Karate-do
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Grappling is not good for street defence. Once your on the ground, you open yourself to anything. Like any bystander can kick your face in. You could be hit by a chair, table, pool stick, beer bottle, ect. Or while you have someone in a choke hold, someone could knock you out from behind.
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If you can't laugh at yourself, there's no point. No point in what, you might ask? there's just no point.
Many people seem to take Karate to get a Black Belt, rather than getting a Black Belt to learn Karate. |
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on the post.
