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TJS
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1843
Styles: boxing, Thai boxing, BJJ,
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 Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Radok-grappling does not mean you have to roll around on the ground, If i threw you on you head that would be grappling, if Choked you out form a standing postition that would also be grappling, that stamtent is absurd.
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| Grappling is not good for street defence. Once your on the ground |
Warp-
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| Just because MMA competitions favour grappling, doesn't make it better |
Yous still have not provided a single valid reason why MMA favors grapplers. other than your WWF "spear" tactic.
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| Actually, THIS is the argument that doesn't "hold any weight." Strikers do not always get taken down. That's a totally absurd notion. By the same logic I could say "well, strikers don't have to worry about grapplers, since the grappler is the one that gets beat senseless |
WE are talking about the floor being an advantage for grapplers, If anyone is going to get takendown it would be the "striker" since "strikers" prefer to stand up and strike. thus there is no way in any takedown the floor would give the grappler an advantage. |
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Warp Spider
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 615
Location: The Origin of the Universe
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnnyS wrote: |
Jerry Love wrote: "Where can I watch some UFCs done in sneakers and on asphault? I'd like to look at those fights (certainly, fighters don't mind having matches that way, you've already declared it a non-issue)."
What an assinine statement. It is a non-issue in a fight, not in a "sport match". Are you proposing that someone like Mark Coleman or any MMA fighter is not going to defend themselves in the street because their opponent has sneakers on or because they'd have to fight on asphalt (because that is essentially what you're now saying) ? Are you saying that they would throw out their grappling techniques and strategy so they wouldn't get scrapes whilst defending their lives ? |
He's not saying they wouldn't defend themselves, he's saying a fight would go differently under those conditions.
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Warp Spider, MMA does not favour grapplers, fights favour grapplers because its easier to move in on an opponent than to keep distance.
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A) Says who?
and
B) Since when does closing on a person alter a strikers ability to strike you? Since when do they need to keep distance? There's no range that's too close for a good striker.
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As for the " It is not hard to flip a double leg around so you land on top of the grappler", maybe you should go and show this to the Olympic wrestling team and they need never worry about being taken down again.
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Actually they could just try not sucking, they they wouldn't have to worry about being taken down either.
_________________
Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God! |
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TJS
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1843
Styles: boxing, Thai boxing, BJJ,
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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He's not saying they wouldn't defend themselves, he's saying a fight would go differently under those conditions.
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Proabably not, Mark Coleman would still slam them with a double leg most likely, the only diffrence is that would proabably be the end of the fight and he wouldent havr to GNP them.
Anyone with real fighting experience knows it's alot easier to achive a clinch than to stay out of one.
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Since when does closing on a person alter a strikers ability to strike you? Since when do they need to keep distance? There's no range that's too close for a good striker.
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The problem is once you are in a clinch it's alot easier for a grappler to get a takedown then it is for a striker to get a KO.
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| Actually they could just try not sucking, they they wouldn't have to worry about being taken down either. |
I would lovey too see you actually go out into the real world and get some fighitng experience beyond you backyard home training and imagination. Olympic wrestlers now suck compared to "warp Spider" the man who can defy all odds and knock out anyone before they get within 2 feet of him. he is impossible to takedown!  |
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JohnnyS
Green Belt
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 444
Location: Australia
Styles: BJJ, Shootfighting, TKD, Goju
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Warp,
watch any boxing match and you'll see the boxer who wants to clinch can always get it.
Your other comments show you're being a troll.
_________________
BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)
Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black Belt
TKD - Black Belt |
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Treebranch
Black Belt
Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 2279
Location: Glendale, California USA
Styles: Budo Taijutsu, Boxing,Lars Wallin BJJ, Machado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Taekwondo
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Radok said:
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| No, Aikido is the type of stlye that works against drunks or untrained people. Not a trained fighter trying to knock your head off your sholders or ground and pound you to a bloody mess. |
Grappling is not only ground fighting. Jujutsu is grappling and most of the techniques are done standing, so I don't know what you're talking about.
_________________
"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who
are willing to endure pain with patience."
"Lock em out or Knock em out" |
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goshinman
Blue Belt
Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 253
Location: pasadena,ca
Styles: hakko densin ryu jujutsu, shuai chiao, catchwrestling, and some judo/sambo
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| Radok wrote: |
| Grappling is not good for street defence. Once your on the ground, you open yourself to anything. Like any bystander can kick your face in. You could be hit by a chair, table, pool stick, beer bottle, ect. Or while you have someone in a choke hold, someone could knock you out from behind. |
Ha Ha , why is it that when people try to talk about why grappling isn't good for sreet defense they always bring up the old "buddies around the corner" argument? If you choke a guy his friend(s) will get you, if you go to the ground random bystanders will suddenly appear and kick you in the head, "they can hit you with a brick, bottle, bat or any other weapon that is magically laying around", and always always watch out for the "glass on the floor and all the debris that you can cut your back up on". 
I have been in quite a few scuffles in my day and I will be the first to tell you that grappling skills have saved my * more then once. Especially the clinch grappling skills taught in TJJ. 
The bottom line is that in most cases grappling arts teach more usable techniques early on then striking arts. Take your average Karate student with six months of training and have him/her go up against someone who has studied jujutsu, Bjj, judo, or wrestling for six months and tell me who do you think will come out on top most of the time. Grappling just flows more naturally for some reason then striking. I'm a big guy(6'1" 250) and can take a good punch, but I can't take a good choke if you catch my drift. A good grappler can punish you with little to no physical evidence of an attack ever taking place, he can restrain you or he can cripple you for life if he chooses. A pure striker can't say the same, a punch/kick to the face will leave a mark and possibly land you jail time if you can't justify it. I could go on and on but I think i've made my point well enough.
P.S. I just wanted to say that striking is an extremly important aspect of the martial arts that SHOULD NOT be ignored even by great grapplers. But seeing what the topic was my post was made accordingly.
_________________
Tapped out, knocked out, or choked out...Take your pick.
http://jujitsu4u.com/
http://www.combatwrestling.com/
http://gokor.com/ |
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goshinman
Blue Belt
Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 253
Location: pasadena,ca
Styles: hakko densin ryu jujutsu, shuai chiao, catchwrestling, and some judo/sambo
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Treebranch wrote: |
Radok said:
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| No, Aikido is the type of stlye that works against drunks or untrained people. Not a trained fighter trying to knock your head off your sholders or ground and pound you to a bloody mess. |
Grappling is not only ground fighting. Jujutsu is grappling and most of the techniques are done standing, so I don't know what you're talking about. |
Hey Treebranch, where is that quote at? I can't seem to find it in this topic board.
_________________
Tapped out, knocked out, or choked out...Take your pick.
http://jujitsu4u.com/
http://www.combatwrestling.com/
http://gokor.com/ |
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Warp Spider
Brown Belt
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 615
Location: The Origin of the Universe
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| TJS wrote: |
Anyone with real fighting experience knows it's alot easier to achive a clinch than to stay out of one.
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And since when is being in a clinch a disadvantage to a striker? That's idea headbutting range, which, in case you've never been so unfortunate to experience a proper headbutt, it is quite uncomfortable.
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I would lovey too see you actually go out into the real world and get some fighitng experience beyond you backyard home training and imagination. Olympic wrestlers now suck compared to "warp Spider" the man who can defy all odds and knock out anyone before they get within 2 feet of him. he is impossible to takedown! |
Since when does striking = standup?
I do have plenty of experience, though I'm not impossible to take down. Generally speaking, however, when taken down I'll either pummel the person on the ground (ever had your head bounced off the pavement with an open hand strike? Instant KO in my experience.) or stand back up and kick/stomp on them.
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Ha Ha , why is it that when people try to talk about why grappling isn't good for sreet defense they always bring up the old "buddies around the corner" argument? If you choke a guy his friend(s) will get you, if you go to the ground random bystanders will suddenly appear and kick you in the head, "they can hit you with a brick, bottle, bat or any other weapon that is magically laying around", and always always watch out for the "glass on the floor and all the debris that you can cut your back up on".
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There's always weapons around in the "real world." Tons of them. I took a look around where I am sitting right now to verify this. If on my back from where I am right now I could use: A bottle of spray nine, (spray in eyes) a small statue, a ceramic plant pot, a large ornamental bowl, a small cactus, and some metal book ends. I could probrably also reach the keyboard with a bit of a struggle. There are always things that can be used as weapons around. When was the last time you were confronted smack dab in the middle of a wheat field?
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Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God! |
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JerryLove
Black Belt
Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 1274
Location: Tampa, FL, US
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:40 am Post subject: |
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It's in a different thread.
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www.clearsilat.com |
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TJS
Black Belt
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1843
Styles: boxing, Thai boxing, BJJ,
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| And since when is being in a clinch a disadvantage for a striker |
It's not if both parties are trying to hit each other it's a disadvantage because it's alot easier to get someone down from a clinch unlees of course the "striker" has better takedowns/defenses than the grappler...at that point he must have grappling experience.
As far as you Knocking people out on ther ground the problem with your theory( I call it that because you have obviosuly never fought a competent grappler) is you assume you will be on top. What makes you think you can out grapple a grappler and achive whatever position you want? why is a striker better atcontrol and positioning than a grappler?
Good luck smashing people heads while you are mounted and getting your own slammed repeatedly.
You seem to be under the impression that Grapplers fall to their backs and pull gaurd in every situation, once again This shows your lack of experience
Basically you have some serious flaws in your thinking. |
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on the post.
