|
|
| Author |
Message |
JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:03 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Chunmonchek wrote: |
| In a perfect world, there would be no "men" or "women" on the floor, only juniors and seniors. My dojo is a bit unusual. I have about 10 students, the majority of which have been with me for over 20 years and are yudansha. About half of them are women...but not when in gi. If you take it easy on any of my yudansha, they tend to take it as an insult, and will hit you harder and faster until you get the message. |
And that’s the way it should be. Our dojo is the same way. You spar to the individual’s ability, not to their gender. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
JR 137
Black Belt
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Conrad665,
The examples I gave are so memorable because there were only those two in my personal experience. I’d have to say it’s quite uncommon. If it were common, they’d just blend in or fade into my memory. The women who think and act in that manner are quite few and far between. If they’re out there, unfortunately.
The girl who did that to me in 6th grade actually became a pretty good friend of mine near the end of high school. I chalk that up to her being young and stupid and making a mistake. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RW
Green Belt
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 426
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| conrad665 wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| conrad665 wrote: |
Thanks for all your replies. I feel a bit better now, learning men have similar concerns. I will not take it personally. I can understand how a man can feel about hitting a woman in real life. It is a pity that in today's society, women are usually vulnerable to this kind of abuse, so I support protection of women by laws. I myself wouldn't hit a woman who does not practice martial arts, or a kid, or an elderly person. I wouldn't hit a man, either, as long as it is not a life and death situation. Why hurt someone when it is possible not to? However, being in the dojo is a totally different thing. Indeed, in real life, I think that guy could take me down with a single blow if he wanted. However, in the dojo, we must train and help each other to get better at what we learn. Everyone has a thing or two to learn from each other. Surely, a man may have some concerns over whether his technique would hurt his female opponent. I spar with kids and women, too, and the key point here is to *adjust* the technique so that no one will get hurt, instead of humiliating the opponent.
I talked to him over this issue and expressed my thoughts, but he said there is nothing he can do about it and he will continue to live by his code, etc. The only thing I can do at this point is not to pair up with him again. I still think he is a male chauvinist. |
He may very well be a male chauvinist. If that’s the case, keep pairing up with someone else. It’s his issue to deal with, you don’t have to change anyone.
You made a great point - we all need to adjust what we’re doing depending on who we’re partnered with. While I don’t spar with the younger ones very often, I have to go easier with them. There are a few women who I go easier with. There are also adult men who I go easier with. Then there are people with injuries and/or medical issues. To go all out with everyone doesn’t do anyone any good.
Sparring partners are exactly that - partners. You should push your partner to work hard and keep him/her out of their comfort zone. Completely dominating and overwhelming them doesn’t do them any good, and it doesn’t do you much good either. I typically spar with two 3rd dans and a 4th dan on Tuesday nights. I’m a 1st kyu. They go at me, and I go right back at them. But I know they’re not going as hard as they possibly can. They’re pushing me hard enough to improve. When I get stupid and think I can keep up with everything they’ve got, I’m reminded of how far off I am during stuff like promotional tests. I just tested for 1st kyu last Monday night. They came at me far harder that night than they consistently do on Tuesday nights, that’s for sure. And I know they have more than they gave me that night.
You go as hard as your partner can handle and walk away learning and improving. Some people can’t handle my 50%, and I wouldn’t be able to handle others’ 50%. The point is for everyone to work together and improve, not to walk in and dominate everyone in sight. Male, female, child, adult, injured, in perfect health; everyone should be reasonably pushed to their own individual limits. Just because I’m a man doesn’t mean every woman’s limits are significantly lower than mine. In fact, my limits are significantly lower than several women I train alongside. |
I think you might be going a bit rough by claiming he's a chauvinist. He was probably just raised that way, and he sticks to it. I don't think that's a bad thing at all. If he's been raised to never raise a hand to a woman, no matter the circumstance, then it probably translates to anything he does. He may just never feel comfortable with a high level of contact with a female, for fear of causing injury by accident. But who knows...
What you could consider is speaking to you instructor about it, and maybe the three of you sitting down and hashing things out. It might help, or it might not. In the end, you should probably respect his wishes as much as he respects yours. |
Maybe I am, but this was how I felt when he refused to spar with me because I am a woman. I mean, I thought he was too proud of 'his manly strength' and it doesn't matter for him how good a female opponent is. I can say I am tougher than many of the women I sparred so far, and as Chunmonchek said, I took it as an insult.
He spoke to me again and apologized, accepted what he said was rude and repeated he just ---can't punch women. He said the same thing as you, bushido_man96, that is, he was raised and programmed that way. I now can judge him less harshly, but still, I do not want an opponent who rejects sparring completely, instead of adjusting his technique and trying to learn how to control his technique. Sparring with this guy will not improve me in any way, nor him, so it is better not to do it again.
And it is shocking to hear that there are women that abuse gentlemen as JR 137 mentioned. Hope there are only a few of them around. |
I mean, sparring is sparring.
"You have to spar me but go easy on me" is kind of a difficult thing to demand to somebody. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RW
Green Belt
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 426
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="JR 137"]
| Blitz4life1212 wrote: |
No matter what the circumstances, men are at a huge disadvantage. Defend yourself, and you’re a guy who beats up on women. No one’s going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Don’t defend yourself, and you could get seriously hurt. . |
Based on what I've seen in the news, it's better NOT to defend yourself, because, like you said, nobody will believe you, or they will bring up the tired "she was wailing at your face with closed fists and hit you 5X, but you didn't have to hit back! You could have restrained her with your superior man strenght without any risk!" argument.
The best thing to do is to take a video and extract yourself from the situation (walk away, run away, evade her strikes with head movement and body movement, but NEVER MAKING CONTACT, even blocking her strikes will get you in trouble, unless you're simply covering your face like boxers do).
Taking video is fundamental, since you will be able to backup your point and sue her if she actually wounded you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="RW"]
| JR 137 wrote: |
| Blitz4life1212 wrote: |
No matter what the circumstances, men are at a huge disadvantage. Defend yourself, and you’re a guy who beats up on women. No one’s going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Don’t defend yourself, and you could get seriously hurt. . |
Based on what I've seen in the news, it's better NOT to defend yourself, because, like you said, nobody will believe you, or they will bring up the tired "she was wailing at your face with closed fists and hit you 5X, but you didn't have to hit back! You could have restrained her with your superior man strenght without any risk!" argument.
The best thing to do is to take a video and extract yourself from the situation (walk away, run away, evade her strikes with head movement and body movement, but NEVER MAKING CONTACT, even blocking her strikes will get you in trouble, unless you're simply covering your face like boxers do).
Taking video is fundamental, since you will be able to backup your point and sue her if she actually wounded you. |
First - I was brought up to not hit women under any circumstance. However I feel like being a devils advocate tonight, so...
Why, besides what we have been taught all our lives, is it somehow different?
The common reasoning is "women are weaker so their at a disadvantage". In most cases this might ring true but not in all. I know a few women that would give most average guys more than a run for their money and to be honest would probably destroy the average guy.
There have been documented cases of guys getting abuse and even killed by women so the "women are weaker" doesn't always hold up and is not always a valid argument.
I understand the legal answer that your at fault in eyes of the attorneys and possibly the court as RW points out. But let me interject this... what if she has a knife or a melee weapon like say a hammer or an ax. Does that make a difference?
Granted the circumstance would dictate the action taken but for arguments sake lets say that she is bent on hurting or even killing you.
Run away? I know women that can out run most average men with ease. What then?
What if she has a gun? You're not out running a bullet unless your the flash.
So when is it OK to defend yourself?
Obviously you would attempt to avoid any of these situations but if confronted with them what would you do? Would you maintain the "never hit a women"? Or would you fight back if forced to?
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
If warranted, and I've no other recourse, I'm going to knock her out for cause. The mindset of not hitting a girl takes a backseat whenever that girl is a threat. That fraility can be that wolf in sheeps clothing. One should never under estimate their opponent, and females aren't the exception to that rule.
Be that threat, no matter the gender, I'm going to hit her/him to cease that threat... I decide the threat level, not someone else!!
Don't hit a girl!! Then girl, don't force me to!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Last edited by sensei8 on Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bulltahr
Brown Belt
Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 727
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Styles: Shotokan, Seido Juku
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I know one thing, around here, even in these days of "Equal rights" etc, if a woman starts on you and you finish it, unless there are witnesses to co-oberate your story, you will be charged with Assault male on female and society/social media will string you up so to speak.
Maybe blocking her attack is acceptable, but fighting back and winning will give all sorts of trouble.
_________________
"We don't have any money, so we will have to think" - Ernest Rutherford |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bulltahr wrote: |
I know one thing, around here, even in these days of "Equal rights" etc, if a woman starts on you and you finish it, unless there are witnesses to co-oberate your story, you will be charged with Assault male on female and society/social media will string you up so to speak.
Maybe blocking her attack is acceptable, but fighting back and winning will give all sorts of trouble. |
Legally speaking, I think things like criminal history and what not come into play. If the male has a history of aggression, then sure. If it's the female that has the history, then the results could be different.
_________________
5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do
(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I believe that any legalities possibly stemming from hitting anyone while defending oneself are secondary, and shouldn't ever be entertained...try to hurt me...it'll be on like donkey kong. I'll concern myself afterwards whenever it's appropriate to do so. Whenever necessary in defending myself, I don't see gender, I only see an attacker.
Truth be known, I don't ever want to hit anyone ever, but if I'm forced to do so then so be it.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RW
Green Belt
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 426
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="MatsuShinshii"]
| RW wrote: |
| JR 137 wrote: |
| Blitz4life1212 wrote: |
No matter what the circumstances, men are at a huge disadvantage. Defend yourself, and you’re a guy who beats up on women. No one’s going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Don’t defend yourself, and you could get seriously hurt. . |
Based on what I've seen in the news, it's better NOT to defend yourself, because, like you said, nobody will believe you, or they will bring up the tired "she was wailing at your face with closed fists and hit you 5X, but you didn't have to hit back! You could have restrained her with your superior man strenght without any risk!" argument.
The best thing to do is to take a video and extract yourself from the situation (walk away, run away, evade her strikes with head movement and body movement, but NEVER MAKING CONTACT, even blocking her strikes will get you in trouble, unless you're simply covering your face like boxers do).
Taking video is fundamental, since you will be able to backup your point and sue her if she actually wounded you. |
First - I was brought up to not hit women under any circumstance. However I feel like being a devils advocate tonight, so...
Why, besides what we have been taught all our lives, is it somehow different?
The common reasoning is "women are weaker so their at a disadvantage". In most cases this might ring true but not in all. I know a few women that would give most average guys more than a run for their money and to be honest would probably destroy the average guy.
There have been documented cases of guys getting abuse and even killed by women so the "women are weaker" doesn't always hold up and is not always a valid argument.
I understand the legal answer that your at fault in eyes of the attorneys and possibly the court as RW points out. But let me interject this... what if she has a knife or a melee weapon like say a hammer or an ax. Does that make a difference?
Granted the circumstance would dictate the action taken but for arguments sake lets say that she is bent on hurting or even killing you.
Run away? I know women that can out run most average men with ease. What then?
What if she has a gun? You're not out running a bullet unless your the flash.
So when is it OK to defend yourself?
Obviously you would attempt to avoid any of these situations but if confronted with them what would you do? Would you maintain the "never hit a women"? Or would you fight back if forced to? |
Oh yeah, having a weapon changes everything for sure. I don't care if you're 100 lbs and 5 feet, if you have a knife or sword or whatever it's pretty much all restraints are off |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
on the post.
