About Ki..

Kato · Yellow Belt

Chi is a very interesting thing, in my mind the jury is still out as to whether it exists or is merely a physiological phenomenon, as it has never been applied to me personally, however I can relate some of the things I have seen that have been described to me as Chi energy manipulation. I have seen my own sensei move one of our students with out ever touching them it was an interesting thing to watch as the person being moved did not even realise that they were swaying, however since he was a believer in Chi power it could have been a subliminal physiological thing (i.e. he realised he was supposed to move so subconsciously he did what was expected). On another occasion I was attending a seminar put on by George Dillman, during that seminar there were a number of demonstrations of Chi which included the un-bendable arm tick which I get to work for me as well as a number of pressure point knockouts culminating in a no touch knock out preformed by a DKI Master (who’s name escapes me at the moment), anyway it was quite spectacular, the poor guy who volunteered for this fell over with out the Master ever toughing him and it took about 5mins for him to regain consciousness. In fact if Dillman is ever hosting a seminar near any of you it might be worth it to go and see some of this stuff for your self’s (he is always happy to demonstrate stuff on anyone who volunteers). BTW he also demonstrates a lot of very useful very devastating self-defence and fighting techniques, so even if you find the whole Chi thing a bust at least you won’t feel it was a total waist of time. Anyway that is the extent of my experience in dealing Chi related phenomenon, so far I feel what I’ve seen deserves more looking into but is not absolute proof one way or the other.

Anonymous2 · White Belt

I will remain nameless, mainly because I'm not suppose to discuss these things.

The master that I have witnessed walking on water is a master of the Monkey system, the white monkey system, Yang Family Spear, May Flower Spear, and other external systems. He's highly trained in iron bone, iron shirt, Chi Kung, Tai Chi, Pa Qua, Hsing Ie, and Meteor Fist ( if you've heard of that I'll give ya a dollar ) He was drunk at the time that he walked on water, and no I wasn't, but I think that's why he did it with me and two other students around. Later when we asked him about it he said that was the highest form of chi development in the yoga systems... levitaion. He was touching the water, he said there are two points plus a meridan you can use to control (for a lack of a better word) your weight. He said certain people could do something that resembles flying (I haven't seen that either ).

I TOTALLY understand questioning what I've said, because I would question anyone that could do such things. I've met 6 people that can do death touch, and 4 of them can do the things I've talked about. There are lots of frauds out there though, that's why you shouldn't put a lot of faith in claims but on what you see. As for me, I've studied for a while now. About 4 years ago I met a shaolin master who lives up on a mountain and has a couple of private students (yeah, I know that sounds like a bad kungfu movie plot line). He started teaching me things that I've talked about and through him I've met other masters. All of them have one same teacher who really isn't widely known.

As for your invitaion .. I wish. Foremost I wish I could pull this stuff off. Second there is no way my master would even claim he could do these things, he'd probably be * as hell if he knew I talked about them. But let me offer this arguement: What is possible with chi? It depends alot upon what you've seen and what you personally can do. If you study Tai Chi... you're just making more of it... Pa Qua... directing it around the body... Hsing Ie... actually making it go outside your body. You can look at Einstein's theory of unified fields of energy and kinda see how chi behaves. So, you can move it around your body... control strenght and speed.. increase your senses... maintain your body and health... you can also force it outside of you... for attacking... get good enough you can put out a small flame with it... better, maybe move an object... learn 'absorbing chi' pull in chi and draw an object toward you... get stronger and the bigger the object you can move... maybe even your own body...

That's kinda why I made the statement that many people don't know alot about chi (sorry, I was kinda rude). The scientists who study it really just examine the patterns it flows in and what organs they relate to... not what it is and what are its limitations. But, Sony corp. did do a study like this.. try to find some info. on it.

I will say that I haven't made any false claims. I know my word isn't much to people who don't know me but that's the best I can do. I can't do this stuff.. and if I did I probably wouldn't teach it to hardly anyone. But, I'd like to hear you're theories on chi. The more info. I get and the more arugements I hear the greater my knowledge grows.

iamrushman · KF VIP

thank you for the information...i would like to know more if possible. your information is of much value to me.

humble regards with a bow.

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Tim Greer · Orange Belt

/* Start rant...

I can't help it.. I can't. I must comment, I simply must. My "Chi" compels me to comment.. I have no control, it's taken over my mind and my universe! That said...

I have never heard anything so ridiculous in my life, and I sincerely hope you are joking! Unless this "master" is Jesus Christ, I'm just blown away that you'd say you saw someone walk on water. I ask you, was this water only an inch or so deep?

Please, don't confuse this with questioning it, disbelief or no faith. This can be construed as an interrogation, but that wouldn't be correct. It's more of a mocking, I won't lie. This, offends and insults me, unless you care to explain that you're joking. I mean, I'm sure you are, but you seem to serious. Maybe you should write a novel or a movie?

Really, honestly, seriously, this is ludicrous! I have studied Shaolin Kung Fu styles, I've studied physiology, I understand how the body and mind functions. I understand the real purpose and function of what is referred to the "chi channels", and what a "meridian" would be described as. This in no way allows people to manipulate reality, gravity or do the impossible. It's what affects the nervous system, sends the body into shock or death, etc. I emphasize, this does not give people the ability to do the impossible, such as manipulate gravity, go back in time, bring the moon crashing down to Earth, part the Red Sea, or shoot fire out of their eyes.

Someone slipped you some really intense hallucinogenic. Out of everything I've studied, I haven't heard of some of these "styles" you claim. This is also not my reason to choose to not believe this hog wash either. It's not simply because "I don't know" or "haven't seen it". It's simply because it's not possible. Flat out, it's not.

I woke up this morning, thinking about someone claiming Kung Fu master's could walk on water. I thought to myself "That would be really funny if that was true, but that's ridiculous -- it was just a dream.. why the heck did I dream that? That's insane!" Then, I checked this thread, since it was updated since my last visit, and low and behold, it wasn't a dream and someone was actually saying this. My goodness!

Now, this isn't an insult or a complete mocking or an attack, but come on here! I mean, I'm open to people doing things that are possible, such as having so much adrenaline pumping, they can lift a car off someone, but there's nothing in the human body that would make it possible for someone to take flight or walk on water, unless you're talking about a _very short duration_!

I am of the opinion that this site, these forums, are for speaking about real things, theories, stories and myths too, sure.. but only as story and myth, for fun. To claim these things and clutter the forums with these claims, really bothers me!

Believe me, I've studied enough to have to defend people's mocking attacks on many styles, because they don't understand that some things are possible. However, it's things like this, that create these inquisitions and make us either avoid the issue or bother to explain how certain things truly are real. This, however, without any humorous content, has no place in a serious discussion in my personal opinion.

However, this isn't my forum/site, so I'll just state my view point about this, and simply ask that you be straight forward and stop joking around, without accusing you of any more than that. Martial arts is important to a lot of people that participate here and at other sites, and nothing bothers me more, than misinformation or ridiculous claims. Mind you, I'm not stating that you can't attack someone's nervous system and send them into shock, paralyze a part of their body, stop their heart or breathing or brain activity, or that you can't otherwise kill them given a certain technique.

I've studied the human body to know that certain things are possible, due to how the body functions. Any serious martial artist will study these aspects, the bones and how much pressure and the angles you need to know to be able to break it effectively, subdue a person, cause great pain, have them lose consciousness or their ability to continue to live. I know that things can work, even without trying them or seeing them. I also know what can not work.

Also, you state that you're met so many people that know "death touches"? What exactly do you mean, and how do you know it works? Did they kill someone in front of you? How did they apply this "death touch", since you're being so open about it? I've seen some people do some pretty amazing things, but they were real things, based on real theories and things the human body is capable of, not things of myth and legend.

You can't stand in front of someone, not even touching them or providing some type of force/power to move them. You can't create wind and change the weather. You can't turn water into wine. These things simply are not possible. These things can't be done or come from the human body. If someone moved you without having some physical force by a person or some natural or environmental element, then you allowed yourself to be tricked.

Chi, in some or most senses, is real, depending on what you "think" it means. In interruption of your body's "flow" (nervous system, blood flow, etc.) can make you ill, it can kill you. It can kill you slowly or quickly. However, it can not and does not have anything to do with voodoo, magic, impossible feats or the like.

If you have a bruise in a cavity that your "Chi" is said to flow through, you can become ill. This is because the blood flow, muscles, tendons, nerves, cells, whatever, can be obstructed. It's like any medical condition, in a lot of aspects. There are vital areas on the body that can be used to harm someone, by making use of knowledge of how they will be affected, if you do damage to a certain area. That goes without saying.

I ask that you not post tall tales, without making it clear you are, or that you are joking, or perhaps are 8, or perhaps are under the influence of something or have some mental illness, because otherwise, it's just getting in the way of the real subject, and the real meaning of it. I just can't sit here though, and listen to some ludicrous mocking about martial arts and gross misinformation based on bad movie plots. I just can't.

End rant... */

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Patrick · KF Administrator

These forums are for any discussion related to Martial Arts. If someone believes a certain myth, that is of their choice.

Thanks.

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Kickbutt · Pre-Black Belt

Yeah, OK Patrick - but this kind of information could be dangerous...especially to younger people who could be influenced by it (no, I don't believe anyone can walk on water). People should ALWAYS question...it's how you learn and form your own opinions and beliefs. This kind of stuff is just ridiculous - we aren't in a martial arts movie people. And while I'm on my rant...why is there no proof about these extrodinary "feats"?? Why the secrecy? Makes me think they've got something to hide...

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Patrick · KF Administrator

I am not saying I believe people can walk on water. I mean, I just went out in my pool and started to walk - it didn't work. LOL

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This Message was edited by: Patrick on Jul 31, 2001 5:40pm

iamrushman · KF VIP

WOW patrick you got a pool........karateforums must be paying off..(lol)

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ChangWuJi · Orange Belt

You are awesome man. I like the mystery handle you are using, "Anonymous" it's the bomb. As for my thoeries on what Chi is pretty much what you've said. My grandfather like your master has told me not to talk about it openly with people since I was a child because he didn't want people to know about it. It's like a family secret, we practice in a specail away to build/attain Chi, that's all I can say. It's what we call our vital/internal energy, one can attain it through proper breathing and other techniques. Many of these methods of attaining Chi are well hidden since ancient times. My grandfather knows atleast 3 other families who study one form of attaining Chi or another and they only teach within their families for many generations. Can I shoot fireballs, like you I can't do that nor can I walk on water. One day, I'll master my vital energy.

I haven't seen any 80ft jumps, but I've seen intense stuff. Two finger handstands, Giant slabs of rock broken over heads, dude from china went to a martial arts tournament and let random people from the audience hit him as hard as they could and the hits didn't move him. He got hit by this Giant Pro boxer dude too. Right in the gut. That was like the hardest punch I've ever seen. Dudes ran over by cars, needles stuck into the outside of the eyes while being attached to a rope holding buckets of water, then the guy stands up and swings them around. Smoke from this 85 year old dudes fingertips. Etcetera, etcetera.

Bruce Lee was into Chi, he used to do fingerjabs through full cans of coke(Coca Cola). Dan Inosanto says he saw bruce do all sorts of weird things that he never really talked about.
Dan says fighters couldn't even touch Bruce lee, let alone hit him.

According to legend, when martial arts were at it's highest peak in ancient China, it is said many were capable of flight through Chi. Today people are doing it through wires! LOL!

Tim Greer · Orange Belt

Wow, it's amazing how people will milk the whole "Bruce Lee" legend for everything it's worth -- or not worth, because they don't realize what he really did or stood for. I can suggest many in-depth books if someone wants to learn the facts about Bruce Lee.

Anywya, why do I have this eerie feeling that "ChangWuJi" and "Anonymous2" are the same poster... hmmm.... (looking at IP's, yup, well, so much for agreeing with yourself using a different username -- that helps reaffirm it all). Anyway, oh well.

Maybe a myths and legends forum can be created. I'm not bothered by it, but passing it off as fact, just sort of takes the value of real discussions away. However, that debate is best left to another forum, I'm sure. Have fun everyone.

_________________
Regards,
Tim Greer | xanth@digital-star.com | Phone: 530-222-7244
I study any and every style and I'm always looking to spar!!
Also, if I'm not around for a while, I'm just away training. :-)

This Message was edited by: Tim Greer on Jul 31, 2001 4:45pm

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