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Johnlogic121
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 156

Styles: Montgomery Style Karate, Ninjutsu, Isshinryu, Judo, Mang Chaun Kung Fu, Kempo

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:52 am    Post subject: WWF Wrestlers Reply with quote

The popular wrestling matches on television fascinate me, whether they are the WWF Wrestlers or the guys from the RAW group. Documentaries I have seen on the subject of professional wrestling insist that the sport is realistic enough to cause serious injuries to its participants, even though they try to fake enough of the action so that they can put on a good show without killing each other. Clearly, these guys are good bodybuilders, and they all have great gross motor coordination to be able to do some of the athletics they possess. My question is this: How well do you think that a regular WWF Wrestler could really fight against a trained martial artist? Some personalities might do better than others, so please tell me how your favorite Wrestler would do agaisnt somebody who was, for example, a fifth degree black belt. What about a ten degree black belt opponent for a WWF Wrestler - could a Professional Wrestler beat a Martial Arts Grandmaster? I am presuming a street fight engagement outside of ring rules with no referee or judges. Thanks in advance for your reply.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28300
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fights always contain random factors, so it is hard to tell who would be better. You also have to consider the experiences of each of the WWE Wrestlers outside of Wrestling, which may include MA training of some sort, including NCAA Wrestling backgrounds, or some other MA. You also have to consider the actual fight experience that some of them may have.

A body slam may be fake in the ring, but if one of them guys picked you up and slammed you to the street, it is going to hurt. Most of them are also in great physical condition, like you said, and that has to be accounted for as well.

Brock Lesnar, a former WWE competitor, was in a UFC fight not long ago. He did not win, but he didn't get schooled either. I think that with the training time for the UFC, he will eventually be able to hold his own in the ring. Now, I know that the ring and the street are different, but it is still a stick to measure by.
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ps1
Black Belt
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Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 3024
Location: NE Ohio
Styles: Chuan Fa, Shotokan, JJJ, BJJ

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many people underestimate raw strength and power. Against an average person, the wrestler would kill em.

The problem is that you say martial artist. If that's a Tai Chi expert, the wrestler is likely to win (assuming tai chi that's usually practiced globaly...not the more combat oriented version). Even against someone who doesn't do alot of hard training, the wrestler may win easily.

It's going to take a very skilled person to defeat the wrestler. The harder the training of the person, the more likely they are to win. A Muay Thai, olympic wrestler, boxer or MMA person may have the most advantages. They need to be used to dealing with raw agression. Most martial artists are not. Even then, it's going to be a tough fight. Those guys are strong and you really have to know your stuff to deal with that kind of strength (either by avoiding any kind of clinch or handling yourself after the clinch).

Rank is relavent only in so much as it is usually tied to age. A grand master has usually trained for 50 years. That makes them kind of old. If they are no longer in good shape, they are gonna have a tough time. Of couse there are some exceptions.
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MMA_Jim
Blue Belt
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Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 275
Location: Philadelphia
Styles: BJJ, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A WWF wrestler would absolutely manhandle most martial artists out there- not so much because they're a WWF wrestler but because they're well conditioned athletes (BIG well conditioned athletes).

We'd have to assume that whoever they're fighting is going to be at a disadvantage in terms of weight. The only people who I would see as decisively beating guys that size would be grapplers, mostly wrestlers and bjj fighters. Assuming they fought a skilled striker, such as a quality muay thai fighter, it would only take a punch or two before the "wrestler" decided to grab him and throw him to the ground.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28300
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MMA_Jim wrote:
A WWF wrestler would absolutely manhandle most martial artists out there- not so much because they're a WWF wrestler but because they're well conditioned athletes (BIG well conditioned athletes).

We'd have to assume that whoever they're fighting is going to be at a disadvantage in terms of weight. The only people who I would see as decisively beating guys that size would be grapplers, mostly wrestlers and bjj fighters. Assuming they fought a skilled striker, such as a quality muay thai fighter, it would only take a punch or two before the "wrestler" decided to grab him and throw him to the ground.


Good points here. I have done some research on the "Boxers vs. Wrestlers" over the centuries, and the ability to take someone to the ground and nullify their striking ability is hard to overlook.
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Rainbow_Warrior
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 359

Styles: Now : MMA/luta livre/Thai , before :Kung fu,kick boxing , boxing, amateur wrestling

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like many guys here explained , pro wrestlers are giants . Many of them can lift in powerlifting terms. Most of them weight much more than 200 lbs, and most of them are over 6 feet. Look at bob sapp !!! he is a beast, a former pro wrestler and KOED many real fighters in K1 and pride. He gave a bad moment to nogueira ( elite grappler )
Many pro wrestlers used to be real wrestlers ( Kurt angle , former olympic medalist ).
Some pro wrestlers , are great technicals. Like Ken shamrock.... He used real leg locks , and he had was good in the UFC.
Some moves , like supplex , doble nelson , slams , etc work in real life.


So.... pro wrestlers can murder almost any 3 times a week martial artist.
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FitOrDie!
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Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 93


PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they would do pretty well in most scenerios simply due to their enourmous size and strength. You can't overlook that, despite their lack of real training. Lifting big weights while taking that much extra testosterone is no small factor. Hit them, chop them, whatever them all you want... it doesn't help much when they can just pick you up over their head and drop you on yours.
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Daisho
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Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 180
Location: NJ
Styles: BJJ, MMA, Judo

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many of those WWF guys are extremely powerful and agile athletes. And the high probablility of them catching elbows etc to their noggins, would lead me to believe a WWF guy wouldn't last long in that business for long if they didn't have an exceptional chin.

Further, many of those guys have legit background in wrestling, judo, etc. I mean my shihan is in ridiculous shape, and a rokudan with 30 years of training in Miyama Ryu and Ogawa Ryu, as well as a world class Judo competitor.... yet if he were to step in the ring with Brock Lesnar I would give him very VERY slim odds at victory.

now put a weapon of their choice in one of their hands, and allow me use of a katana, and I'm fairly sure I could dismember them at will with ease.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15065
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pro-Wrestling is FAKE and the Martial Arts isn't! By the way, many Pro-Wrestlers have admitted/said that Pro-Wrestling is fake. They've said it in both print/video media...Killer Kowalski was the very first Pro-Wrestler to say so.



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tallgeese
KF Sensei
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Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6852
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that's a given. No one's disputing it.

The gist is that the sheer athleticism and size of one of them would be difficult to overcome. Espicailly given the folk/freestlye/greco background that many of them possess.
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