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Traymond
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 997
Location: Michigan
Styles: Sensei of Brasshand Style, but practicioner of many
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 Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Bushido-Ruach wrote: |
| Traymond wrote: |
| FitOrDie! wrote: |
| tallgeese wrote: |
Yeah, not really buying it. I agree, I'd have like to hear more about the physiological effects on hard trauma to the nerves, but the intro voice over made it difficult to settle in and take any of it seriously.
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The ninja guy dancing around like he did as the voice over occurred also made it hard to take seriously. But then, it's hard to take any "dim mak" talk seriously. |
Whenever I hear Dimmak I think of Jean Claude Van Damme in bloodsport...haha |
That's the biggest hindrance to dim muk teaching here in the states...Hollywood has so distorted the truth behind the technique that no one takes it seriously.
Here is another example, in my own words so that I don't infringe anyone in the same field...along the Stomach meridian is points 16 and 17 (about an inch above the nipple and on the nipple, respectively), if either one of these points are struck hard enough (or both simultaneously - "hard enough" being 12 pounds of pressure or greater), they will shock the heart and it will stop functioning. The attacker won't have a heart attack, it will simply stop pumping.
There are numerous acupuncture points along the body, some of them can be used to cause great damage along with healing...there are a few that, if struck hard enough, or in a certain succession, can cause KO and/or death. |
Martial arts in general seem to no longer be taken seriously, it is to bad we dont have people who fight for the good of martial arts any more like in the older days such who protect it from such mockery.
Their is a spot on the back of the head just below the placement of the skull that is said to be hit with 10 lbs of pressure and it is enough to "stun" your opponent for about twenty seconds, which I think would be enough to finish him off.
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FitOrDie!
Yellow Belt
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Bushido-Ruach wrote: |
Here is another example, in my own words so that I don't infringe anyone in the same field...along the Stomach meridian is points 16 and 17 (about an inch above the nipple and on the nipple, respectively), if either one of these points are struck hard enough (or both simultaneously - "hard enough" being 12 pounds of pressure or greater), they will shock the heart and it will stop functioning. The attacker won't have a heart attack, it will simply stop pumping.
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You have any proof of all this?
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Bushido-Ruach
Yellow Belt
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 96
Location: California
Styles: Self-defense MMA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Bushido-Ruach wrote: |
| Here is another example, in my own words so that I don't infringe anyone in the same field...along the Stomach meridian is points 16 and 17 (about an inch above the nipple and on the nipple, respectively), if either one of these points are struck hard enough (or both simultaneously - "hard enough" being 12 pounds of pressure or greater), they will shock the heart and it will stop functioning. The attacker won't have a heart attack, it will simply stop pumping. |
How do they portray the fact that this amount of pressure will cause the heart to stop? Have they tried it, and then recussitated someone? Or is it based off other data? |
I am assuming that the information accumulated down through the experimental stages of developing such systems of attack, such as those developed in India where tradition says most of the nerve or pressure point systems developed. Chinese history concerning acupuncture developed in an age when the individual was sacrificed for the good of the country...and along with the development of some of those points into attacking points.
Acupuncture is thousands of years old, as well as many of these pressure point targets. Most of them do have recussitation techniques that were developed at the expense of many human lives, only in such an atmosphere and age of brutality could such a system of fighting be developed. The recussitation techniques were developed in order for practicing these points on one another.
Most martial arts, in making their way to the US, lost such pressure point attacks because of the fear of such knowledge being misused...a very valid fear!
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Bushido-Ruach
Yellow Belt
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 96
Location: California
Styles: Self-defense MMA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| FitOrDie! wrote: |
| Bushido-Ruach wrote: |
Here is another example, in my own words so that I don't infringe anyone in the same field...along the Stomach meridian is points 16 and 17 (about an inch above the nipple and on the nipple, respectively), if either one of these points are struck hard enough (or both simultaneously - "hard enough" being 12 pounds of pressure or greater), they will shock the heart and it will stop functioning. The attacker won't have a heart attack, it will simply stop pumping.
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You have any proof of all this? |
Kodenkan Ju-Jitsu, from which my humble martial arts history began, has many such points. There is another point along the stomach meridian located near the bladder that when struck will cause the attacker to begin heaving, as if vomiting, I have personally seen this one many times...it seems to be a favorite amongh black belts sparring one another...seeing who can tag the other first.
Some systems still retain such anatomical point attacks, but as I said in my response to Bushido-man, most have purposely stopped teaching such techniques for fear of misuse. Good evidence can be found in any black belt of a system still retaining such knowledge, you would just have to find such a system near you.
I have had some of the less dangerous ones done to me, kind of like when Polise Officers have to be tazed when they are being tazer certified, they have to know what it feels like in case they ever have to use it. They aren't fun to experience...but they are real and they do work.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Traymond wrote: |
| Martial arts in general seem to no longer be taken seriously, it is to bad we dont have people who fight for the good of martial arts any more like in the older days such who protect it from such mockery. |
I'm not sure this is really the case. I think that most of us here take the Martial Arts very seriously, and I don't think that we are the minority, either. As for those who would have protected it from mockery, I really don't think that situation has changed much, either.
We could argue about the "watering down" of the MAs in general, but I do think that there are more good schools out there than bad. The bad ones just get more attention. Like bad news.
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Traymond
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 997
Location: Michigan
Styles: Sensei of Brasshand Style, but practicioner of many
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Traymond wrote: |
| Martial arts in general seem to no longer be taken seriously, it is to bad we dont have people who fight for the good of martial arts any more like in the older days such who protect it from such mockery. |
I'm not sure this is really the case. I think that most of us here take the Martial Arts very seriously, and I don't think that we are the minority, either. As for those who would have protected it from mockery, I really don't think that situation has changed much, either.
We could argue about the "watering down" of the MAs in general, but I do think that there are more good schools out there than bad. The bad ones just get more attention. Like bad news. |
I am not necesarily talking about this site...of course we take it seriously other wise we would not be here right now. But I am talking about in general...lets take the USA for example. In Korea and Japan to be a teacher of martial arts puts you in HIGH regard to almost anybody, here, to people it means that you are a black belt big deal.
As for me saying that their are alot of people who dont fight against the mockery of martial arts is when I hear people constantly talk crap about tae kwon do, it was my started martial art...many people dont know that and still people will still talk about it...I would fight against their sayings even if I never took Tae Kwon Do because just because the art looks pretty doesn't mean it isn't deadly and not many other martial artists would do that anymore...I mean would a Tae Kwon Do or Karate practitioner fight for someone else's art....I haven't met anyone like that yet...
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tallgeese
Black Belt
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6879
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Bushido-Ruach, you stated that these things work because they've been passed down from ealier generations that put them to task on the battlefield. Paraphrased.
That may be true. Then again, it may not. For all we know, the guys doing this stuff were using 8 inch blades to accentuate their strikes. There's no way to tell.
I agree with bushido man, what' d I'd need to see is some hard science on how and why they work. Then maybe some studies on how many times they were successfully deployed under fight conditions. Then we're cooking with fire.
I'm not saying that there's noting there. I don't know, I can say I havne't been impressed with alot of stuff that I've seen come out of certain camps that put forth pressure point theory. But as we all know, there are good and bad everywhere in anything. I do have some friends that are pretty sold on the stuff, so it's on my list of things to look into deeper.
Still, just because something has been passed down, dosn't automatically make it feesable. There's nothing wrong with ongoing experimentation into the effectiveness of things as we progress with methods. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Traymond wrote: |
I am not necesarily talking about this site...of course we take it seriously other wise we would not be here right now. But I am talking about in general...lets take the USA for example. In Korea and Japan to be a teacher of martial arts puts you in HIGH regard to almost anybody, here, to people it means that you are a black belt big deal.
As for me saying that their are alot of people who dont fight against the mockery of martial arts is when I hear people constantly talk crap about tae kwon do, it was my started martial art...many people dont know that and still people will still talk about it...I would fight against their sayings even if I never took Tae Kwon Do because just because the art looks pretty doesn't mean it isn't deadly and not many other martial artists would do that anymore...I mean would a Tae Kwon Do or Karate practitioner fight for someone else's art....I haven't met anyone like that yet... |
As far as how things are looked at in Asia as compared to the states, you have to take into account that these are two different cultures. Milage will vary.
As for the TKD bashing that tends to happen, there are two ways to approach it. Let them run their mouths, and just ignore them, or, you can get into a verbal arguement with them. Although a verbal arguement can be fun from time to time, I'm not sure you can accomplish anything in regards to the Martial Arts with one, without it breaking out into a challenge of some kind. In the end, though, the proof is on the floor, as a friend of mine is fond of saying. You find it in talk or written word.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| tallgeese wrote: |
| Bushido-Ruach, you stated that these things work because they've been passed down from ealier generations that put them to task on the battlefield. Paraphrased. |
I wouldn't be inclined to buy into the "battlefield tested" idea behind this. For the most part, battles have mainly been fought with varying levels of armor on. These points wouldn't be accessible through armor.
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Traymond
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 997
Location: Michigan
Styles: Sensei of Brasshand Style, but practicioner of many
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Traymond wrote: |
I am not necesarily talking about this site...of course we take it seriously other wise we would not be here right now. But I am talking about in general...lets take the USA for example. In Korea and Japan to be a teacher of martial arts puts you in HIGH regard to almost anybody, here, to people it means that you are a black belt big deal.
As for me saying that their are alot of people who dont fight against the mockery of martial arts is when I hear people constantly talk crap about tae kwon do, it was my started martial art...many people dont know that and still people will still talk about it...I would fight against their sayings even if I never took Tae Kwon Do because just because the art looks pretty doesn't mean it isn't deadly and not many other martial artists would do that anymore...I mean would a Tae Kwon Do or Karate practitioner fight for someone else's art....I haven't met anyone like that yet... |
As far as how things are looked at in Asia as compared to the states, you have to take into account that these are two different cultures. Milage will vary.
As for the TKD bashing that tends to happen, there are two ways to approach it. Let them run their mouths, and just ignore them, or, you can get into a verbal arguement with them. Although a verbal arguement can be fun from time to time, I'm not sure you can accomplish anything in regards to the Martial Arts with one, without it breaking out into a challenge of some kind. In the end, though, the proof is on the floor, as a friend of mine is fond of saying. You find it in talk or written word. |
Bushido,
do you respect teachers in general?
I do...and most martial artists that teach do...and im sure you do as well.
We hold a high regard to teachers no matter what style they are because they earned it and they are our superior. Alot of people dont do that...if you look at the 50's and his decade it is totally differant the respect is gone...and I like to think that when parent's put their kids into martial arts it is helping them a bit.
and Either way whether their is verbal or physical conflict and if their isn't any all...still nothing good happens...nothing is accomplished. But I would prefer to make them know their mistakes if the outcome is the same no matter what.
Thats just my opinion on how things unfolded to me...but im just one so it is not meant to be taken to heart.
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To fear death is to limit life - Xin Sarith Azuma Phan Wuku |
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on the post.
