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mushybees
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 196
Location: UK
Styles: Wado ryu

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
MatsuShinshii wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Then why in the world are we instructors teaching/promoting females in our core styles?? Why?? Because it looks good on paper, in some office, somewhere??

Seems to me that no one is giving any female the respect I feel, and believe, that they wholeheartedly deserve/need.

A female with 10...20...30 years on the floor against a male with similar years on the floor, under YOUR guidance, the female practitioner is effectual across the board as the male practitioner under YOUR guidance, as well.

If we instructors don't give our female students any chance against a male student of equal knowledge and experience, then I feel/believe that we should just close the doors of our MA schools.

Why?

What we're teaching is for BOTH GENDERS!! Not for just one...not for our favorite bet...not for this and that. Our floors are full of both female and male students, and while the ratio might have more male than female students, and they EACH equally deserve our most loyal attention to provide them our best.

We, as MA instructors believe in what we're teaching our Student Body, equally, but whenever push comes to shove, the female student is left without any hope and/or comfort in their learned effectiveness, by their own instructor(s).

Imho!!






Agreed, agreed, agreed!

I am not saying that a female is not able to take down a male. But we are talking two different scenarios Sensei8.

Your talking on the streets where there are no rules and the techniques that we teach can be employed to even the playing field or turn the tides to the females favor. Heck go back and read one of my other posts defending females against male. I can't remember the exact post but it was in terms of female vs male or small vs large or something along those lines. But that again was under a different context. We were not talking UFC.

I am simply pointing out that in the terms of this post (UFC elite against elite) the male will come out on top every time because of the rules involved. We all know ways (or at least I assume we do) to take an aggressor out fast by means of submission, knockout, injury or even death. The difference is once you enter that cage you are stripped of the techniques that level the playing field of small taking on large and female taking on male.

It's just fact. The male is genetically built over centuries to fight. It's in our genetic make up and a male of say 205 lbs is going to hit much much harder than a female of the same weight class. This actually skews the weight classes. I am taking into mind that both are equal in technical proficiency, skill, and knowledge.

I watched a show years ago, I think it was fight science of something of those terms, anyway the were showing the power generation of a punch. The men punched two times harder (power) than the females and in some instances even harder. Its not an argument, it's centuries of genetics. Our bodies are built differently, it's science.
Now having said that I agree with you 100% that a well trained female against a male, and allowing for all techniques, would more than have a chance against the male.

Heck, take the number one equalizer weapon that any layman would teach a female, the groin kick. You can't do that in the UFC much less any other technique that we teach to equalize the fight. It's not an argument of whether females stack up in everyday life it's a question of rules in the UFC and what you can and can not do. If you take away our techniques larger or more powerful fighter will prevail. This is why the techniques were invented in the first place. Call it dirty fighting or what you will be this is the equalizer when a smaller man faces a large man or when a female faces a male. Obviously technique and intent will be the deciding factor unless there is a lucky shot but if you remove the equalizing techniques for the sake of sport and safety then size and power comes right back into play.

It's just my personal opinion. Everyone is free to have there own. I am definitely not taking anything away from female fighters. Most could probably destroy me. God knows I do not train for 8 hours a day, have all of the science and multitude of trainers/ instructors to train me to be the best. I'd have to quite my job and find the fountain of youth to reduce about 30 years to even have a fighting chance in the cage against most of the fighters whether male or female.

So I am not arguing the fact that women can stand toe to toe with men if trained. I am arguing that we are built differently and like it or not the male is genetically built for combative sports. In this case the elite male would over take the elite female on the same playing field and under the same rules (UFC). Call me a sexist or a bad instructor or whatever you will but I feel that these are the facts IMHO.
Here is the latest fight science information.

Punch like a girl ; has been known as a derogatory statement for a very long time; science proves otherwise as this video explains.

For the statement highlighted in red

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Qfhs_4z8c


Ok, I have not seen this evidence presented before. In this case I would say my statements are dead wrong. Wow, that was impressive to say the least.

Ok, I guess I have nothing left to add. Ignore my earlier posts. I guess I have to learn to like the taste of crow because I just ate some. Well supported argument Alan. I admit I was wrong in my assumption.


This is the same woman, in her prime as an undefeated fighter in a fight with a 13-3 male journey man.
https://youtu.be/X2QgDWSfQik
She is a genetically gifted fighter but throwing a punch under ideal circumstances isn't fighting.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW!
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2122


PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The style "Wing Chun" developed by a female Shaolin fighting monk, was developed for a woman to fight men; by enhancing female attributes and exploiting inherent male weaknesses.

Wing Chun is the latest style of martial arts to be developed in China, some 300 years ago.

Wing Chun's origin, legend or reality isn't so important, the principles however contained within the style are.

How can Bruce Lee, that uses 50% Wing Chun in his Jeet Kune Do, be so easily discarded.

As all of Bruce Lee's opponents are male and most likely bigger than him and stronger, he was intelligent, by testing out all of his theories first.

Bruce Lee had to modify Wing Chun to fit him as a man; but the style was originally designed for a woman.

The Wing Chun style of today has a male engine (Yang) but it should have a female (Yin) engine as it was intended; when females use it in combat.

There are Wing Chun enthusiasts, trying to put the right engine back in to the style.

This is why Wing Chun is called the lazy man's Kung Fu.

Wing Chun has been described like a car, with a regular body that contains a supped up engine; this is the (Yang) male version.

Wing Chun (Yin) however is very different beast...

Want to know more?
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MatsuShinshii
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Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

White crane was developed by a female as well.

I guess I don't know where this fits into the discussion of females fighting males in the UFC. Can you clarify?
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2122


PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
White crane was developed by a female as well.

I guess I don't know where this fits into the discussion of females fighting males in the UFC. Can you clarify?
White Crane is a large part of Wing Chun and also the snake.

The snake engine of Wing Chun has been mostly omitted due to the large amount of time to master this aspect.

Ironically it is the snake engine that is better suited for female fighters.

Female UFC fighters using this "Snake engine" theoretically against males, would benefit from it immensely.

BJJ uses a different snake engine; the Anaconda; that works with the Wing Chun version seamlessly.

The problem I foresee is females in the West believing in it enough to make it work successfully during combat...
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Lupin1
KF Sempai
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Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1603
Location: NH USA
Styles: Isshinryu

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
The problem I foresee is females in the West believing in it enough to make it work successfully during combat...


You'll notice most of the females in this thread are arguing the opposite-- that a top-of-the-game female cannot compete with a top-of-the-game male. It's ironically the males in this thread arguing they should be in the same division.

A trained female has a chance against an untrained male, which is why females still learn and trust martial arts. If you're gonna be attacked on the street, it's most likely going to be by an untrained person. But if you take male and female fighters with the same level of skill, the male will win out 9.9 times out of 10.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lupin1 wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
The problem I foresee is females in the West believing in it enough to make it work successfully during combat...


You'll notice most of the females in this thread are arguing the opposite-- that a top-of-the-game female cannot compete with a top-of-the-game male. It's ironically the males in this thread arguing they should be in the same division.

A trained female has a chance against an untrained male, which is why females still learn and trust martial arts. If you're gonna be attacked on the street, it's most likely going to be by an untrained person. But if you take male and female fighters with the same level of skill, the male will win out 9.9 times out of 10.
What is the ratio of female UFC fighters to males?

How many females like to do martial arts compared to males?

Females fighting males in the future UFC could be in ten years time or a hundred.

Things change, societies change, attitudes change, UFC had changed since its conception to 3 rules now with 30.

Medical and scientific advancements change, perhaps muscle growing hormones for women, that make men seem skinny and weak in comparison.

I had never seen women with tattoos as a child, unless it was the tattooed lady in a circus; things change.

Who would imagine that not long ago mobile phones would exist "Star Trek technology" things change.

Women in their sixties giving birth to babies, things change.

Things that don't seem possible today, doesn't mean it will stay that way forever, things change.

If women belive it isn't possible to be different yet at the same time equal to men right now, no problem; things and especially attitudes change.

(With this post there has been 666 views; very fitting for me, as playing the devils advocate)
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2122


PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A question for the female doubters;

How many of you have practiced or used these martial art techniques, that are contained in this video?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bioxzgnSlU8
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Trailer_Ape
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 24 Apr 2017
Posts: 44
Location: Kansas
Styles: Hawaiian Kempo

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lupin1 wrote:
I'll just point out that I think it's funny the two women in this thread are saying "no, women are different from men" while the men are saying women are strong and can compete.

From a woman's perspective-- we'd rather have women compete against women to give the strongest among us a chance to shine rather than have them compete in the same pool as men and have maybe one or two women in the world who could even break into the top 20.

Women ARE different from men and it's more fair to the athletes to have them compete separately. There is a reason ABC just voted unanimously to separate fights into even more weight classes-- because body composition matters.


I skimmed some pages, sorry if someone already pointed this out but...

I have no idea how y'all carry a toddler, on your hip. I'm 180#, bench press over 250# and get exhausted trying to walk as far as a woman can with a kid on my hip. Yea, our bodies and muscular abilities are not the same and we really should not be expected to square off against each other. Now some straight BJJ matches, eh.... that might be a more level playing field.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something not very surprising, well not to me...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F3FZLTpJREY
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